December 18, 2011
“None of the four wars in my lifetime came about because we were too strong. It is weakness that invites adventurous adversaries to make mistaken judgments. America is the most peaceful, least warlike nation in modern history. We are not the cause of all the ills of the world. We’re a patient and generous people. But for the sake of our freedom and that of others, we cannot permit our reserve to be confused with a lack of resolve.” *Ronald Reagan*
This article is a collection of remarks gleaned largely from comments placed by some Ron Paul supporters on my Facebook wall addressing topics like the withdrawal from Iraq, and Ron Paul’s comments about Michele Bachmann “hating Muslims, and wanting to go and get them.” There is also commentary about some recent panics spurred largely by Ron Paul and some of his followers.
These are the sentiments of some, not all, Ron Paul supporters. Although these quotes are verbatim and taken from actual conversations, it is not my desire to defame individuals, so I will not use their names. It is my desire to expose the noxious ideology embraced by some Ron Paul supporters that goes far beyond the noble desire to return the United States to its Constitutional First Principles, and takes a stance in opposition to many things which Conservatives regard as good and patriotic. This ideology also embraces the “truther” point of view which attributes the attacks of 9/1, not to Islamic Terrorists, but to warmongers and “neo-cons” within our own government.
These remarks are for you to read and come to your own conclusions.
This was in response to a post which discussed the possible scenarios in Iraq after the withdrawal of U.S. Troops.
RP Supporter: First, we are not withdrawing from Iraq. Lie 1 Second, we had no business there. Lie 2 Three, we were lied to by the Bush Administration, Lie 3 (maybe they should have been impeached)
The following conversation was in response to a comment made by one Ron Paul supporter who said, “It would be better if people who think like you didn’t exist.” I was naturally taken aback.
RP Supporter: Sorry about *****, he is very blunt. He really does mean well.
ReaganGirl: Yeah, when you start saying that people who think a certain way shouldn’t exist, it sounds a little creepy.
This excerpt is in response to a post I put up on Facebook which included a video clip of Ron Paul saying of Michele Bachmann, “She doesn’t like Muslims. She hates Muslims. She wants to go get them.”
RP Supporter: Whatever Bachmann’s rationale for wanting to start a pre-emptive war with Iran is, the reason she gave to support yet another war is an outright lie.
Even if Ahmadinejad did say he’d wipe Israel off the map, he’s also repeatedly said they aren’t building nuclear weapons, but reactors for fuel… so… why would he put his reputation on the line and promise to nuke Israel, but also say he’s not making nukes?
You’d probably say “he’s lying”. Ok, well, then why would he put his entire nation on the line by threatening War? That’s MAD (mutually assured destruction).
The war propaganda, sabre-rattling, and nation-building is not a solution to the bad situation in the Middle East, it is provocation.
Which may not all be untrue at all, but, check your premises:
We are also murderous. Millions upon millions have died in our wars.
We are also conquerors. Entire governments and economies are our puppets, and we to the UN and NATO.
We also ran the slave trade. Fortunately as a people we decided against it.
We are persecuting and killing over religion, right now! From an objective stance, we Christians are killing those Muslims. This is what RP was alluding to on Leno’s show.
We also use terror as a means to an end. We bomb wedding parties and schools, the reports of women and children dying would make you sick if you were forced to confront all of them. And what would you say to their remaining loved ones? “Sorry, our bad, but its for your own good, you murderous zealots!”?
Another Ron Paul supporter chimed in.
RP Supporter II: Are all of you neo-conservatives insane?? There simply is no moral, legal or constitutional authority for what we are doing. It simply is not even within the realm of the Proper Role of Government. The government only has as much authority as we, the citizens do. No matter who my neighbor hates, not matter what weapons he has, I have no authority, no moral basis to invade his house simply because I think, fear or am convinced by others that he might do something bad. Only when he does, do I have the moral right to stop him by defending myself.
The founders warned that our civil liberties and freedoms would be most in danger by engaging our selves in war, let along continuous war.
We simply can no longer afford continuous war, to be the police man of the world. The only ones gaining form our involvement in continuous war is the Federal Reserve which continues to make trillions from our borrowing.
The consequences of our actions in engaging in wars go back all the way to WWI. Churchill stated that if the US had not entered into WWI, we might not have had Hitler, we might not even had a communist Russia. Our actions in the middle east have left hundreds of thousand dead and injured and yet somehow we think that this is moral. Especially from those who proclaim themselves to be pro-life.
ReaganGirl: Do you agree with ****’s remarks that “we are murderous,” “we are conquerors,” and “we use terrorism?”
RP Supporter II: I do…completely!
Yet another Ron Paul supporter jumps in, incredulous that I find their depictions of the United States Military offensive.
RP Supporter III: YOU ARE ANTI AMERICAN FOR SUPPORTING LIES AND WAR! LYING IS ALWAYS WRONG! IT IS DISHONORABLE TO IGNORE THE WRONG THINGS AMERICA HAS DONE. DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WE CANT FIX WHATS WRONG IF WE ACT LIKE WE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG? DO YOU THINK WE HAVE SOME DIVINE RIGHT AND WE CAN DO THINGS THAT ARE WRONG AND CALL THEM RIGHT? I LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND THAT IS WHY I AM SAYING THIS. AMERICA HAS TO ADMIT HER MISTAKES IF PROSPERITY IS EVER TO RETURN. OBAMACARE WAS A MISTAKE, THE PATRIOT ACT WAS A MISTAKE, INDEFINITE DETENTION IS A MISTAKE, IRAQ WAS A MISTAKE… THE LIST GOES ON AND THE WOUNDS ARE FESTERING BECAUSE PEOPLE REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. YOUR SOMEHOW SUPPOST TO STAND FOR LIMITED GOVERNMENT AND YET YOU WOULD PREFER TO TRUST MASSIVE TOP DOWN GOVERNMENT IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS?? WHAT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF MY GENERATION? EVERY TIME YOU KILL SOMEONES PARENTS OVER THERE YOUR CREATING MORE PEOPLE WHO WILL WANT TO COME HERE AND KILL ME AND MY CHILDREN 20 YEARS FROM NOW! (the screaming capitals are his)
The second Ron Paul supporter chimes in again.
RP Supporter II: First, Ms Haun as well as all of you neo-conservative friends (and yest, it is a word with meaning…look it up) you continue to mud sling, name call, misjudge, mischaracterize, misconstrue, misinterpret. I am now an Arab sympathizer, a liberal, anti-American, a fascist, etc. You continue to disparage Americans who truly want a LIMITED Constitutional Republic. SHAME ON YOU!
His rant continued and it, like a typical Paulesque tirade, has tidbits of truth, some inflammatory rhetoric, non-sequiters, and paroxysmal emoting.
I have taken time to explore the real nature of the Ron Paul phenomenon as is exists within my own experience. I am troubled by what I see, not simply because Ron Paul is so completely wrong on foreign policy, but because many among his followers espouse ideas that are outrageous, conspiratorial, paranoid, and reactionary. In my experience their animosity to so called “neo-cons”–which seems to identify anyone who rejects their extreme points of view, or who supports a candidate other than their dear leader–is so caustic that it dissolves all potential to build alliances between the Ron Paul contingent and other conservative groups.
The Ron Paul supporters with whom I have debated have a dubious patriotism. They sound a lot more like anti-war, pot smoking, sex-drugs and rock and roll hippies than they do Tea Party Patriots.
Most troubling of all are the paranoid alerts coming from the heart of the Ron Paul movement. The Terrorist Provisions of the Defense Authorization Bill, which was passed last week by the House and Senate, set off a panic that had the, supposedly conservative, Ron Paul Right teaming up with the ACLU, Democrats in the House and Senate, and citing the leftist Huffington Post as a credible source of news. Erroneous reports of the country coming under Martial Law and the storming of Mormon food canning operations have been published, puffed-up, then pulled by individuals and groups who extol the virtues of Ron Paul.
This is my assessment: Some Ron Paul supporters are Liberals in sheep’s clothing, who hide behind the Constitution and the limitations it places on government in order to bolster the things they like and with which they feel comfortable, such as the legalization of pot, and to repudiate those things that make them uncomfortable, such as war.
I condemn the depictions of our military, by some Ron Paul supporters, as the bad guys, and our national enemies, especially Islamo-fascist regimes such as Iran, as the hapless victims of our “interventionist policies.” Their opinion that any defense of Israel is an interventionist policy, and therefore extra-constitutional, smacks of Antisemitism and I find it profoundly disquieting. I am a conservative patriot. My love for country burns hot in my bosom. I have not given up on the United States. I love her still, though she is wounded and wandering. The Constitution may hang by a thread, but it is a strong thread, a fiber connecting free men and women to the God who gave them liberty. I applaud the United States Military, the servicemen and women who offer their blood for a cause bigger than themselves, who endure the stress of combat so the children of the future may enjoy peace. I trust the good men and women in office, local, state and national–and there are still a few–who are truly trying to carve away at the massive New Deal government which burdens and taxes Americans nearly to the breaking point. I have hope in America and I trust God. Since the withdrawal of Herman Cain, I remain undecided as to a presidential candidate. But I am not fearful. I still love the United States of America, and I still have faith that God loves her too.
By Marjorie Haun 12/18/11